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16th February 07
Looking on eBay I saw brooches that have the same shape as mine has, but all were longer soaked in whatever. Mine is black, has a smooth surface and some green patina. After dropping acetone on the back side, some patina came off.
Comparing this one to my genuine pieces, the patina and the whole surface looks too smooth, and the patina looks like it's on the surface, not within. I'm now sure this is a copy.
What's your opinion, please?
17th Feb 07
I do not like the dolphin brooch one bit. First it is a very rare type yet there have been a great many for sale for the last year or so all identical to yours and the legion 8 one you show. All of course in perfect condition too which is highly suspicious.
I do not like the patina. Hard to define exactly why, this is just one area where experience shows. While it is true that there are near endless varieties of patina I have never seen this look on any genuine item, though that could be a photo problem.
Finally, and most strongly the round-cross section design of the catch "plate" for the pin does not exist in genuine fibula I am aware of but is on nearly all the recent fake Bulgarian jobs.
Thanks for your detailed answer!
> most strongly the round-cross section design of the catch "plate"
Here is an an image to compare my dolphin's catch "plate" to one of a genuine piece.
Everything on the fake is more round – is that what you mean?
There's a little detail I mentioned first when I took these photos: It's a thin line in
I'll better take a lens with me next time I go purchasing brooches. (The real brooch shown to compare is very shabby, but interesting. It's a funny looking triskelion openwork piece and repaired in antiquity.)
Great image showing fake and genuine "catch plates".
Yes, the bottom (top in photo where fibula is upside down) of the catch plate
The original is sharp and angular, in addition to showing its age. I am not sure if the line in the pin hole you refer to is a definite sign of fake or not. I can not recall seeing one on original but I amnot sure. Original would have been cast too. To tell the truth I had not even noticied in before.
3rd September 07
From time to time I come across dual dolphin brooches on eBay. They all looked so similar that I compared a few pieces, sold by different sellers. Apparently all of them were made in the same molding, or at least in the same workshop ... not very supposable on ancient items offered by different sellers! I'm sure they're all faked. The nonconformity of each brooch's two dolphins turned ot to be the most simple indication.
Some images of pieces I regard as fakes. Seller's name and auction number are included.
From the left clockwise:
draconarius, spes publica, victorianantiquities and stigsantiquities
17th Feb 07
Some months ago I purchased a crescent brooch from legion_8 (my first plate brooch). The front surface looks genuine. On the back side there are some traces of file work (you can see it next to the catch plate, it's a triangle shaped dark spot).
The dirt is very solid – glued? Or is it calcified encrustation? Is it repaired in antiquity, or was the pin replaced recently, or is the whole piece faked? How can I find out?
What do you think?
17th Feb 07
The most likely case here is that the solidified "dirt clump" is done in modern times with a hot glue and a handful of soil. Many of these come out of Eastern Europe (as per the type and color of the dirt used.) I have 2 examples myself of bow fibulae that have pins that were "restored." I picked them up from a colleague of mine for about $10/piece, more for fun than anything else.
They have very clear dirt clumps at both ends of where a modern pin was added, after being chemically patinated to look something like the original patina (BTW, the chemically induced patina is much greener and smoother that the original patina on the fibula itself, like that statue in question from the earlier discussion... It's simply a matter of really just looking at the piece closely to see the difference on these two that I have.)
17th Feb 07
I agree with you. Front looks genuine with patinas I have seen before, including the deeper hole. Pin is suspiciously new and several times thicker than any genuine existing pins on 1st century Roman plate fibluae that I have handled. The heavy encrustation at the hinge and catch therefore look like they were "glued" to cover the replacement of a pin. I would guess it is genuine fibula with replaced pin.
19th Feb 07
Yes, the colour of the pin is very green. It's obvious on this piece now; I hope it's as obvious when I purchase a brooch next time. I remember the statue you mentioned and I saw a head or mask today with the same colour. I'll have a look on various genuine metal pieces on eBay to `collect' patina impressions.
I paid about 10 EUR. Now I know why it was so cheap.
Legion_8 claimed to live in Las Vegas and had sort of an Eastern European name, but the envelope was sent by someone with an English name from Maastricht / NL. Is this a common arrangement for sellers like him?
I've already got two bow brooches with replaced pins, too. I purchased them to learn how that looks like. Both pins are different to this one, so it's still a addition to my collection. Three are enough :).
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